FLEXIcontent Performance vs. Joomla vs. K2

6 years 1 month ago #45362 by kenmcd
Recently I turned the PM feature back On in the Joomla forum (been Off for a couple years).
So people can now PM me again in the Joomla forum.

Yesterday I got a PM asking for help on a large Joomla site that is having performance issues - server crashes, slow performance.
He apparently found me from my old posts in the J1.5 Performance forum.

This reminded me about the Joomla Performance forums.
And the many, many, many potential FLEXIcontent users in those forums.

FLEXIcontent performance is a competitive advantage we can use.
And we can emphasize this in our communications (e.g. JED description, announcements).

First, in the FC forum I set-up a new Performance forum.
And I am moving performance related posts there.
This will show users we are concerned about performance.
And that we have solutions.

Second, we need real data for performance comparisons.
Joomla  vs. FLEXIcontent  vs. K2  vs. Zoo

I have seen some posts in the Joomla forum which say K2 is faster than Joomla.
I have also seen some posts in the Joomla forum which say K2 is a massive inefficient server resource hog.
I asked one of the posters for hard data ... no response.
We need hard data (e.g. comparisons).


Georgios,

I know you have run some performance tests of Joomla vs. FLEXIcontent.
We also need Joomla  vs. FLEXIcontent  vs. K2  vs. Zoo.

We need actual numbers to compare performance.
Including where FLEXIcontent is the best, and not the best.
Open and honest comparisons that users can use to make good decisions.

We need the comparison info to know where FLEXIcontent needs to improve.

So please document what comparisons you have done so far, and the results.
And what comparisons need to be done.

K2 is touting their performance as an advantage over Joomla.
We need to know where we stand vs. both Joomla and K2.

I need to know that what I am saying on the JED and in announcements is correct,
and that we can back it up with actual test data.


Thanks.
 

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6 years 1 month ago #45366 by micker
good idea

FLEXIcontent is Free but involves a very big effort on our part.
Like the our support? (for a bug-free FC, despite being huge extension) Like the features? Like the ongoing development and future commitment to FLEXIcontent?
-- Add your voice to the FLEXIcontent JED listing reviews. Thanks![/size]

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6 years 1 month ago #45371 by ggppdk
Hello

so you have setup a performance sub-forum !
that is great idea Ken

it is good to prove to prove FLEXIcontent performance

and provide some tips there too :-) !!



About showcasing performance

i have been given a copy of
http://isranews.org

27,000+ items

(big Thailand news site),

we can use this for testing
(just i can not give you copy of it, i committed/promised on privacy of the backup archive)

we can use it to make case TEST case scenarios
and then make some youtube-shared videos too


-- Flexicontent is Free but involves a big effort on our part.
Like the our support? (for a bug-free FC, despite having a long list of functions) Like the features? Like the ongoing development and future commitment to FLEXIcontent?
-- Add your voice to the FLEXIcontent JED listing with a 5-star review. Thanks!

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6 years 1 month ago #45397 by kenmcd
 
We need verifiable benchmarks.

I suggest we set-up a performance testing sub-domain.
[c:9sf8wovr]perf.flexicontent.org[/c:9sf8wovr]
Populate that with sample data — 20,000-50,000 articles/items.
Then all of us can run the tests and see for ourselves.

At the moment I am not very happy.
I have been telling people that FC performance is much better than Joomla.
Now I find out that:
  1. We have virtually nothing tangible to back-up that claim, and
  2. That the worst Joomla performance issues have not been addressed.
So basically I told people stuff which is quite possibly completely untrue.
Basically that makes me a liar.
My fault for not verifying claims that I am repeating.
Regardless it makes me angry.


Performance is a very important issue.
It is important for competing against Joomla com_content alone,
and even more important for competing against other CCKs.

Joomla has some well known performance issues.
To not address those issues in FLEXIcontent is just crazy.
Not an option.

K2 claims it has much better performance than Joomla on large websites.
Some Joomla gurus say that K2 is a server resource hog and not that fast.
K2 does run some very large websites.
So some of what they say is likely true.
Dunno. Have not seen any hard facts.

K2 is FLEXIcontent competition.
Zoo is FLEXIcontent competition.
How does FLEXIcontent performance compare?

We need real actual verifiable repeatable test data.
And if FLEXIcontent cannot compete on performance, that is a big problem.

 

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6 years 1 month ago #45399 by ggppdk
Ken

Now I find out that:

We have virtually nothing tangible to back-up that claim, and
That the worst Joomla performance issues have not been addressed.

Regardless it makes me angry.


it is is frustrates me, you are angry with who ? me ? why ?

i spent time to optimize FC, i spent time measuring

and you asked only yesterday
and i started spending time to find a larger site and spent time i did not have (today)

Ken you don't have to believe anything just test,

To make a first test it is easy

a big site (at least 10,000 item in a category) install FC,

case 1: add no extra fields and test frontend category view with various ordering
see that FC is faster
and the larger site becomes, the bigger the difference


-- The cost of item view is almost same regardless of site size, fast and always less fast than Joomla, FLEXIcontent does a lot more in item view, imagine Joomla + 20 content plugins to achieve similar result

anyway when we speak of performance it is about multi-item views

i am tired and sleepless and 6:00 am, i have to go to work soon


-- Flexicontent is Free but involves a big effort on our part.
Like the our support? (for a bug-free FC, despite having a long list of functions) Like the features? Like the ongoing development and future commitment to FLEXIcontent?
-- Add your voice to the FLEXIcontent JED listing with a 5-star review. Thanks!

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6 years 1 month ago #45401 by ggppdk
About

We have virtually nothing tangible to back-up that claim,


please turn on performance statistics parameter to see (in frontend views) and then visit category view, we measure every time consuming task, we even measure how much time we spend inside content plugins

find me 1 component that does this, in this level of detail, if for any reason there is a performance problem in FC, then you can easily learn where, and even find out if it is an individual plugin

this gives a great advantage to anyone trying to find out why his site is slow, he is not blind any more, he does not have to use XDEBUG like developer would do to get profiling stats,

the Joomla profiling points is something but e.g. it gives you only how much time the full component takes

please use it

about showcasing if , i have now a 27000 items site,
(if we could find a bigger one)

we can via SQL query assign ALL items to single category, and then test FLEXIContent without custom fields and with custom fields against Joomla

or we could move all top level categories under a single top level category

testing a category with 500 items is pointless Joomla will be faster i said many times in forum and in our JED listing, too little articles


-- Flexicontent is Free but involves a big effort on our part.
Like the our support? (for a bug-free FC, despite having a long list of functions) Like the features? Like the ongoing development and future commitment to FLEXIcontent?
-- Add your voice to the FLEXIcontent JED listing with a 5-star review. Thanks!

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6 years 1 month ago #45406 by ggppdk
1. tested in 12,000 items site about 10,000 in a single category category

FC: 1.6 sec
Joomla: 2.0 sec


2 i was given site with 27,000 items, TODO: restore backup
-- will put under a top level category and create listing of all site content with FC and com_content
(actually FC can list all site content without doing this !! just &view=category&layout=mcats)


3. and someone promised a J1.5 site with 100,000 items, will upgrade to J3.x to test it
-- will put under a top level category and create listing of all site content with FC and com_content

and will test backend items manager too
J1.5 article manager was very slow compared to FC, J2.5:

12,000 items (order by title):
FC:0.6 seconds
Joomla:0.5 seconds

must test with a bigger site !

- ken, yannick , will give you access to websites, after i have restored them


just my home,
has 0.8 Mbps (0.1 MBytes/sec) ADSL upload, maybe i should restore online too


-- Flexicontent is Free but involves a big effort on our part.
Like the our support? (for a bug-free FC, despite having a long list of functions) Like the features? Like the ongoing development and future commitment to FLEXIcontent?
-- Add your voice to the FLEXIcontent JED listing with a 5-star review. Thanks!

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6 years 1 month ago #45441 by ggppdk
Hello

ken, please respond, are you well ?


-- Flexicontent is Free but involves a big effort on our part.
Like the our support? (for a bug-free FC, despite having a long list of functions) Like the features? Like the ongoing development and future commitment to FLEXIcontent?
-- Add your voice to the FLEXIcontent JED listing with a 5-star review. Thanks!

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6 years 1 month ago #45444 by kenmcd

ggppdk wrote: ken, please respond, are you well ?

As I told you via skype, I felt we were going in circles
... and continuing the discussion was a waste of time.
Implying I am ill is at the least ridiculous, and at the worst offensive.


What have I been thinking about?
Among other things – Does this project have a prayer of succeeding?

Every day in my head I compare FLEXIcontent to its competitors.
Performance was one area in which I thought FLEXIcontent may have an edge.
Now that is in doubt.

Does FLEXIcontent have any competitive advantages?
Why would a user choose FLEXIcontent over another CCK or Joomla core alone?


To answer that question for commercial products we would do a Competitive Analysis.
I have done these myself, and contributed to many others.
They can range a simple one of approximately 10 pages, to a more comprehensive 30 pages or more.

I doubt you have ever seen a Competitive Analysis let alone done one.
So I can help with a basic structure ...

Let's compare FLEXIcontent, Joomla, K2, Cobalt, Seblod, and Zoo
Factors to compare:
  • Features
  • Interface
  • Performance
  • Support
  • Usability
  • Joomla standards support
  • Marketing and PR
  • Cost

Build yourself a big table and fill it in.
Applications across the top, factors down the left side.
Provide analysis and conclusions.
For example for Features, list all the important features and if they are supported.
Do the same for the other factors.
Document the analysis and the conclusions.
Be honest in your assessments
Answer the two questions above.

This is exactly what users are doing when evaluating FLEXIcontent versus another alternative.
Please show me, and show yourself, how FLEXIcontent would fare in this user analysis.

p.s. Without first doing such an analysis, thoughts about offering commercial services are a premature fantasy.

When done answer this question – Does FLEXIcontent have a long-term future?
The answer to that question should help determine if your time is best spent here or doing something else.
That is the question I am asking myself.

 

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6 years 1 month ago #45445 by ggppdk
Hello

ken, the "well"
meant emotionally ("angry", "frustrated", anything) , i am not well, when i have any bad feeling, maybe it is difference in culture/language, in Greece we can mean either health or emotions

your suggestions of what TODO are always useful, some we already know , i would say at least half of what you said in this or other threads,

i am not well now (emotionally) to write more,
will do what i can during march


-- Flexicontent is Free but involves a big effort on our part.
Like the our support? (for a bug-free FC, despite having a long list of functions) Like the features? Like the ongoing development and future commitment to FLEXIcontent?
-- Add your voice to the FLEXIcontent JED listing with a 5-star review. Thanks!

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